这不是“切割韭菜”，而是驱逐其他狙击手的计划失败了。

原始采访：咖啡齐拉，YouTuber，加密货币记者；

来宾：海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis），天秤座的主要创作者之一；

原始翻译：chatgpt

编者注：Kelsier Ventures成员Hayden Davis是天秤座的四个主要创作者之一，其他三个是KIP协议成员Julian Peh，阿根廷技术论坛成员Mauricio Novelli和Manuel Godoy。该项目得到了2025年2月14日的哈维尔·米利（Javier Milei）的支持。该视频的创建者咖啡齐拉（Coffeaczilla）采访了海登（Hayden），试图弄清天秤座到底发生了什么。在采访中，海登承认天秤座团队抢走了天秤座的硬币发行，而梅拉尼亚队也抢走了梅拉尼亚的硬币发行。

以下是原始内容（为了促进阅读理解，已经编译了原始内容）：

tl; dr

咖啡齐拉：在过去的48小时中，我一直在调查阿根廷名为天秤座的模因硬币。如果您不知道，阿根廷总统曾经公开支持模因硬币，然后崩溃了，人们开始怀疑这1亿美元的基金去了哪里，就好像它消失了一样。在此事件中，我一直与关键人物保持联系，并试图找到答案。接下来，您将听到一个小时的采访，采访了负责发行的主要人的海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis），还参加了许多令牌决定。目前，他手中有1亿美元，正在考虑如何处理。您会在电话期间发现这不是我们第一次交流。我试图在过去24至48小时内与他沟通。

这次采访不是我卖出的观点，因为我只想获取一些信息。我认为我们最缺少的是答案。因此，我听更多的话，尽管我认为我们在这个电话中获得了一些非常重要的认可，但我想清楚地表明，这不是我通常的“骗子”风格，实际上是故意设计的。从一开始，这个人非常紧张，所以我认为以这种方式做出反应是不合适的。每个人都会根据您听到的内容有自己的看法。

但是我认为更中性的方法是让该人自己大声疾呼。这是他发表Twitter声明以来他的第一个公开声明。 Twitter声明只有一分钟，反应不好。因此，我想给他一个机会一次告诉所有信息。采访突然开始，因为他一开始就说了不公开的话，我不得不将他们切断。但是，我希望这次采访可以为问题的真相提供一些线索。

它不是“切割韭菜”，而是驱逐其他狙击手的计划失败了

咖啡齐拉：我想知道这部分是否可以算作正式记录？因为我不想包含这些私人内容，所以不应公开这些东西。感谢您提供的背景信息，关于天秤座的部分是重点。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：是的，天秤座部分没有问题。好，继续。天秤座的问题之一是，当您在Meteora上上网时，您会尝试避免所有这些狙击手，而问题是……没有特定的预防措施，例如由内部人员控制的狙击手，而这些狙击手不存在。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：真正的问题是，在大型发行中，所有的卷都进来了，然后您看到这个人 - 在大钱包上 - 出乎意料的是，卖得很多，我不明白为什么，但他拥有5700万美元，天秤座的市值为45亿美元或50亿美元，问题在这里。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：不是45亿美元。因此，您必须做出一个实时决定，例如：“好吧，我想从流动性池中抽出一些东西，保护地板价格并知道接下来会有更多的营销计划？”或者，“我让图表崩溃了。”这就是每次您发行时都会发生的事情，有3至10个家伙会得到巨额资金。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：他们都是坏狙击手，只是想发货。您根本无法跟踪它。要么需要很长时间，要么根本不起作用。因此，每次发布时都会发生这种情况。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：至于天秤座的具体情况，我很高兴分享，尽管哈维尔和他的团队告诉我，明天将在电视上直播，但我不认为这完全是公开的，但他将澄清我和天秤座显然面临公共压力。基本上，当天秤座启动时，我们的目标是：“我们可以收集足够的流动性吗？”尽管有些人会说这只是一部分或不完整的声明，但目标是收集足够的流动性，因为麦莉准备好进行前两个视频，还有一些……我没有提到任何名字，但是有些高级人物将参加，发布推文和市场视频。

因此，我们的目标是在此阶段是否可以提取足够的流动性将这些狙击手赶走，至少可以控制它们，因此当图表下降时，整个项目将不会被破坏。然后，让Milei发布第二轮视频，并重新注射大部分首都或至少大部分流动性，以创建超大的发行版。至于他为什么删除帖子，我仍然没有明确的答案。我猜他可能承受着巨大的政治压力，作为一个非克里普托领域的人，他可能会感到恐慌。我能理解。如果我是他，我会有这种反应。

现在，我们正在尝试弄清楚下一步该怎么做。但是有人说这是一个“切碎的韭菜”。这显然是错误的，因为流动性池中仍然有6000万个锁定位置，对吗？市场价值为3亿，不是“削减韭菜”。这是该计划的失败，手头有1亿美元。我是该基金的保管人，但我不知道该怎么办。我不想成为公共敌人，我没有从中受益，但是我的生命处于危险之中。

咖啡齐拉：是的，我想谈论一些积分。感谢您的解释。关于1亿美元，我认为公众舆论是广泛使用了诸如“切割韭菜”之类的词，基本上它具有口语含义，这是指不公平的提取价值。我的理解是，这种不公平的价值提取是将钱带走，而且似乎没有明确的陈述，即1亿美元的去向，所以人们会认为他们只是想赚钱，对吗？每个人的看法是，这亿美元是利润。然后，显然需要做些事情，将钱放回市场上，并试图将其重新归还人民。这个过程必须非常复杂，因为有必要避免有人继续利用这种情况。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：是的，的确如此。如果可以添加，这也是多方面的，因为它是模因硬币。如果您将整个投资组合都放在模因硬币上，那么...虽然这不是财务建议，但这是愚蠢的。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我理解，但与此同时，如果您考虑到这一点，我今天与一些人谈论了如何评估令牌的价值，尤其是当它没有“死”时。总统可能会继续支持它，因此它肯定会有一些反弹的空间。您必须控制叙述：“好吧，人们损失了钱，因为他们选择出售它，但是代币还没有死。”但是问题是，没有人能给我一个明确的答案。

咖啡：我明白。如果Milei真的回头，我会感到惊讶。我认为他会摆脱这件事，并可能洗手。但是，我也可能错了。我不完全了解整个情况。我有一个问题，只有直接回答是“是”还是“否”，只是：麦莉会从中赚钱吗？不，对吧？我的第二个问题是，参与此版本的两个人Manuel和Mauricio？是的，他们来自阿根廷的科技团队。是的，是的。 KIP协议将经营非营利组织，这些组织是基础等。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：是的，是的。

咖啡齐拉：他们的参与度不多，然后您将发行硬币，但是您不负责分配这些资金。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：是的，我可以再说一点。该计划最初是一个实验，对吗？ Milei确实想将所有内容都放在链条上并公开所有东西，例如将所有国家的金融交易都代表化，对吗？因此，我正在与许多不同的人交谈，不同的基础是未来几年的外观。最初的想法是，因为事实是，所以让我们进行一个实验，看看会发生什么。因为老实说，在他支持它的同时，这不是他的官方模因硬币，让我们清楚地表明。好的，就目前而言。

咖啡齐拉：是的，所以你知道，其中的重要部分之一是每个人都在试图弄清楚发生了什么。这笔钱已从帐户中取出，然后有人指控内部人员在合同发布之前就知道了这些信息。所有这些KOL基本上，业内人士在发布硬币之前就知道了硬币，因此他们可能会与他人分享此信息，这很糟糕，因为它给某些人带来了不公平的优势。 。其次，他们自己也可以从这些信息中获利。

我认为戴夫·波特诺伊（Dave Portnoy）有一个非常简单的例子，他在释放前两周就知道了这枚硬币，对吗？所以他知道这一点。顺便说一句，尽管戴夫声称他知道硬币可能会被释放，但他说他没有在释放它之前购买它，也没有以内部人士的身份购买它。麦莉发推文约十分钟后，他买了它。如果可以的话，他说他会购买1000万美元。因此，要澄清的是，尽管他知道这种硬币的存在，但他的说法是他没有事先交易。只是想确保我们也将其放在故事中。他有时间筹集500万美元的资金并交易了硬币。然后他亏本损失了钱，然后你把钱还给了他。这就是我认为许多人看到内幕的利益和不公平的原因，每个人都会认为它是如此的操纵。他交易了500万美元的硬币，但他损失了钱。最后，您将钱还给了他。正确的？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：什么时候。 1。这是我当时的错误。老实说，我不记得那个时候。到了深夜，我正在和他来回交流。我当时以为麦莉将公开支持这枚硬币。没什么大不了的。我不要。戴夫（Dave）损失了钱，我从每个人都会质疑这件事的角度考虑了这一点。因此，我可能需要与他交谈，我敢肯定，我们会讨论有关那些知道硬币的人的一些不同术语。我的意思是，我不能说我或任何知道这些信息的人，有曼努埃尔或毛里西奥告诉其他人。

我能告诉你的是，很少有人知道。所谓的内部人士一直是我的谜通常会最大程度地发挥最大的作用，或者最大的损失。因此，我认为这不是内部人士。我认为这是加密货币中的愤怒人物，他们总是觉得有不公平的优势。如果您是连锁店的天才，并且您知道如何在Meteora玩游戏，那么世界上有30个人比其他任何人都更擅长这样做。所以，好吧，但是有些人认为是...

咖啡齐拉：不，游戏确实有不公平的规则，许多人都知道有关股票的一切。您可能是沃伦·巴菲特（Warren Buffett），但是巴菲特与拥有有关辉瑞公司（Pfizer）公司的内部信息并使用该信息进行交易的人之间存在差异。因此，我认为每个人的沮丧是因为您擅长交易，他们并不感到不满意，但是因为您知道公众不知道的一些信息，并使用该信息来做出交易决定，这在公开市场上是非法的，所以称为内幕交易。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：是的，但是在模因硬币上，a，这不是违法的，b，这是每笔交易的常态。我的意思是，每个人，世界上每个人都这样赚钱。他们知道一个项目，与项目党达成协议，然后从中赚钱。像这样。如果责怪这个，则必须责怪其他一切。是的，就像，我认为真的是...

咖啡齐拉：我认为这很糟糕，我真的认为这很糟糕。对于除内部人士以外的每个人来说，这就是我对模因硬币的看法，这使内部人员受益。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：所以坦率地说，我认为我不反对，但是我认为大多数赌模因硬币的人，尤其是那些一开始的人，我认为这是一个独立的话题，零售投资者都在玩这个游戏。那些生气的人是那些不是内部人的人。这就是发生的事情。那些未能输入交易的人发送了所有社交媒体上的投诉。如果他们达成交易，您将永远不会听到他们的声音。所以问题是，您该怎么办？你什么都不做吗？你不发送硬币吗？那你怎么办？那就是问题。

咖啡：很明显。进行交易是使用您在项目中获得的信息做出交易决定的两件事。如果我为一条推文获得报酬，假设我透露了这一点，那么我认为这不是问题。但是，如果我在这个项目中有信息，然后根据这些内部信息购买价值100万美元的硬币，我认为这是错误的，应该消除。如果您认为这些市场应该像资本市场一样对待，那么这就是...

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我不这么认为，我认为人们不应该将其视为资本市场，因为它们根本不是资本市场，这根本不是他们的本质。

咖啡齐拉：但是你是一个经销商，当然，你应该这样想，对吗？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：即使是这样，即使是这些交易，我也只是下注。如果我把钱放进去，我认为它可能会零，而且我根本不知道。正确的？因此，我不将其视为普通股，而是将其视为赌场，因为那是它的本质。

咖啡齐拉：是的，但奇怪的是，总是说：“哦，不应该有这样的法规，规章制度”通常是那些在赌场倾斜桌子的人。我听到戴夫（Dave），或者我谈论的是：“哦，你的沟渠中的小婴儿在哭。”好吧，医生，味道如何？好吧，首先，战es中的大多数小婴儿都没有获得500万美元的退款。其次，戴夫就像是：“哦，你们生我的气，因为我在你面前卖了你的硬币。”或类似的东西。你是...

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：您很生气，因为您没有出售它。

咖啡：我不生气。当然，控制赌场最大杠杆作用的人是那些说：“我们认为我们所说或做的事情不应该有任何规则，只要我们发表公开声明，我要去为了对你这样做，你知道。”正确的？

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：但是，我说，首先，戴夫（Dave）是个好人。其次，戴夫实际上对模因硬币的操作并不了解。他没有，他根本不明白，我的意思是，他只是在几周前才理解：“哦，事实证明，如果我敢打赌这枚硬币并谈论它，价格会上涨。这太疯狂了，我应该怎么做？

承认天秤座团队发行了硬币和狙击手

咖啡齐拉：等一下，我不想专注于他，因为在某种程度上，我仍然感谢他的透明度。这显示了我们看不到的幕后很多事情。但是我只想说一个更大的观点，也就是说，每个人都说：“是的，我们应该放松监管，不要像其他项目一样对待这些硬币。”这些人通常是操纵游戏或其中的人。有某种兴趣的人。这是一个不公平的优势。正如您所说，抱怨的人是一个没有不公平优势的人，不抱怨的人是一个拥有不公平优势的人。我认为这是一个真实的陈述。我想跳出这个话题，因为这些钱包似乎与您有关，并且与您提供的硬币有联系，对吗？例如，在天秤座中，有一个钱包。戴夫从那个钱包那里得到了退款。他说，钱包是您的个人基金，这个钱包与天秤座的狙击手的雪崩钱包有关。因此，如果您释放这枚硬币，您是否不公平地参与了这款狙击手？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我想拒绝，有几个原因。首先，正如我之前所说，大多数情况下，这实际上是一个更大的话题，正如我在短信中告诉您的那样。在大多数情况下，当我们进行狙击手时，我们的目标是避免其他狙击手进入。所以，无论如何，我不狙击，我不是那种人。就像，我不知道该怎么做狙击手。如果您把我放在电脑前，请我做狙击手，我什至不知道该怎么做。我从来都不是机器人，我根本不了解那些事情。

咖啡齐拉：但是您不否认与您接触的钱包卷入天秤座。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我不会说我与我保持联系。我会说的...

咖啡齐拉：不，这与退还给戴夫的钱包有关，戴夫说钱包是您的个人基金。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：这只是一个巧合，它发生在我们汇款的压力下。但这只是一个错误。我的意思是，如果有什么问题，实际上，我的意思是，当我们将资金重新注入市场时，它会像我们考虑的钱一样通过另一个钱包流回市场。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：可以说所谓的“狙击手”是该项目的资金，对吗？我们这样做，任何时候我们就这样做。在大多数情况下，狙击手的目的是防止其他狙击手进入。如果该项目具有足够的交易量，我们将使用它来确保其继续运行。我认为这对许多人来说很难理解。

咖啡：我同意，我同意。我认为这真的很难理解。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：因为您看起来像，所以给您一个很好的例子。如果您看特朗普并看着那些狙击手的情况，那么特朗普的交易量很大，这些狙击手一点都不重要，几乎没有影响。

咖啡：不，等一下。那是不对的。有一个男人早日使用100万美元来狙击手。每个人都认为梅拉尼亚的崩溃是梅拉尼亚的原因。实际上，狙击手出售了数千万美元的硬币。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：当然，有一个人做了8400万，对吗？我的意思是，我们可以争论一天。我的观点是，当您是团队的一员时，狙击并不意味着应该总是发生，但是我要说很多时候是为了保护。如果交易量足够大，则可以将部分取出，使其他人有机会推迟价格。因为对于模因硬币，它们的崛起太快，所以这些项目可能会在两天内崩溃。唯一的希望是您有足够的资金来对抗那些狙击手。这是每个人对Solana的讨论，每个知道这些发行方法的人都会谈论这个话题。

咖啡齐拉：您认为公众知道，当项目发布时，该项目会狙击这个项目吗？因为我试图以最宽容的态度来研究它，因为假设这笔钱不是为了盈利，而是为了项目，对吗？我认为公众不知道您有这些秘密活动，例如通过这些“侧钱包”运营，这有点有问题。项目党正在控制该项目的价格，这就像一个奇怪的价格操纵。您可能会说：“如果价格太高，我们将把其中的一些从图表中删除。”这使团队对“财务钱包”的概念毫无意义，因为您似乎也有狙击钱包作为财务。公众对这些事情没有透明度。老实说，您认为这经常发生吗？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我认为这是所有模因硬币项目中经常发生的事情，除非它们完全崩溃然后被撤销，希望没有人会搞砸。但是我必须说，这是我非常透明的态度，也许有点过分分享，我不在乎。所有这些都是因为有些人弄清楚了如何使用区块链系统。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：当您是负责任的一方时，试图使这些项目永远活着，基本上每个出售这些项目的人，除非是恶意的，否则他们正在试图弄清楚如何使这些项目永远活着。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我在这个行业的整个目标是，如果您想听听戴夫的故事，就可以提及它。在某种情况下，麦利队希望戴夫（Dave）参加，以便他们可以进行一些跨平台促销活动，甚至可能最终像他和特朗普那样进行采访，如果戴夫（Dave）有一个项目，可能会有一些机会。让他们的持有人从中受益，并创建另一个社会财务项目。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：就像，我们一直在努力弄清楚如何做到这一点。而且总是混乱的是大规模狙击。这是使一切变得不好的主要因素，没有解决方案，因为这些人离开了八百万，一亿甚至200万，这完全很好，而其他人则被欺骗，该项目被责备。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：好吧，我认为狙击不是有史以来最道德的举动吗？不，但是我认为没有人能弄清楚如何更好地遏制，尤其是当项目首次发布时，只有狙击手才能看到发布，只有狙击手才能看到合同地址。他们已经在镭，meteora上操纵，并且确定他们也在逆戟鲸上操纵。

咖啡齐拉：所以，我说，我认为狙击自己的项目很疯狂。但是我会同意，狙击确实是所有这些模因硬币的一个巨大问题。我还认为内部新闻是一个大问题。我认为两者都可以同时正确。一些狙击手是由内部泄漏引起的，例如...

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我不同意。

咖啡：您可以不同意，但是有一些alpha群体。一方面，他们将寻找有关链条的信息，另一方面，他们还在寻找早期合同泄漏。他们将付费以获取这些早期合同地址，然后狙击它们。 。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：是的，但是呢？那么，问题是什么，解决方案是什么？您不发布该项目，还是尝试保护该项目？好的，我问你，你会怎么做？

咖啡齐拉：从哲学上讲，我认为Meme是一款零和游戏，它从大多数参与者中提取价值，并通过其工作方式，交易结构以及为了使某人赚钱，另一个人必须损失的机制一美元本质上是不公平的。因此，我认为从一开始，这个行业的总体方向是错误的。但是显然，我将重点关注不公平要素的问题，例如欺诈或内幕交易，或者人们普遍认为是错误的问题。因为，如果人们想参加模因硬币，那就没有问题了。但是我认为，如果他们要参与其中，至少市场应该是公平的。我认为模因硬币很愚蠢，但是即使您想参加这些愚蠢的事情，也应该公平。

就像赌场发生了什么，对吗？除了不公平的赌博元素外，赌场还充满了欺诈。因此，他们最终受到严格监管。为什么赌场需要监督？因为人们被骗了。因此，我认为这些项目最终应该发生类似的事情，尽管目前有很多力量促进对所有事物的放松管制。

承认参与Melania Coin发行狙击手

咖啡齐拉：显然，我知道这是一个更敏感的话题，但我必须问，因为这是我故事的一部分。许多人将您与Melania的发行联系在一起，这在每个人的脑海中，尤其是我。问题是，您是否参与了梅拉尼亚的发布？这是在那笔交易中狙击吗？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我想我以前告诉过你，但我会这么说。不，我很想分享真相，但是您要问一个事实问题，这可能会使我陷入巨大的危险，但这没关系，我会回答。我参与其中。我认为团队真的很想狙击，因为特朗普的狙击量很大。而且我们不是大狙击手，我们绝对不是，我们正在努力避免这种情况。我们没有从Melania团队那里赚钱，我们没有吸引任何流动性。

咖啡齐拉：好吧，哇，这真是令人震惊的消息。但是我想放大这一点。您说：“我们没有从流动性中撤出任何资金”，但我们追踪了其中一个钱包，其中收到了150万美元的梅拉尼亚代币，该钱是通过地址发送的。然后那个钱包似乎出售了收到的令牌。所以你说你没有出售任何流动性，但是...

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我不。没有流动性交换，也没有将其交换为单一资产。我没有说我没有钱就被卖了。交换流动性和销售流动性是两种不同的事情。

咖啡：哦，所以您交换了它，但没有卖掉它，还是相反？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：不，相反。

咖啡：另一种方式？卖了，但没有交换？好吧，这很有趣。好的。那么，您是否参加了这两个主要版本？我还听说过像胡德这样的销售，你们是吗？我知道这些事情非常令人困惑，但是我认为您对这些事情仍然相对透明，谢谢您的诚实。您似乎至少说实话。

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：我实际上是...

咖啡：有1亿美元？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：看，我必须先说一件事，大约1亿美元。这样的事情，所有这些事情实际上都不是特别的。您知道，有些人试图说：“他如何与戴夫和麦利有关系？”我不是一个特殊的人。我跟踪了所有这些，因为我想得到两件事。首先，我认为模因硬币是社会融资的一步。我现在发现这实际上是错误的，每个人都想杀死我，因为我为这些事情做出了贡献。其次，我认为您和其他人至少应该花一些时间思考每个人应该做什么，人们应该如何从这些项目中赚钱？因为实际上只有一种方法，对吗？那就是成本，大规模发行的成本很小。然后是一个平台。无论是“地毯拉”还是一个成功的项目，他们都可以赚很多钱。我坚定地不同意这一点。我完全不同意这种方法。无论如何，Meteora，Jupiter，Bullex，Photon等平台无论如何都从交易费中赚钱。如果人们赔钱，他们仍然赚钱，这会让我感到非常错误。我已经告诉许多这些平台的所有者，这种方法是错误的，应该有一些退款政策。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：无论如何，除此之外，问题是，当系统破裂时，您正在尝试修复它，清理不同的产品和不同的机制，考虑从高市场价值开始，决定谁应该参与，而不是谁应该参与其中，以及如何保留合同地址，如何在不告诉别人的情况下进行营销，您该怎么办？

如果录制和发表这一对话，我希望至少有一些想法，因为即使是加密行业中最好的也没有答案。他们没有，没人知道该怎么办。我一直在想：“我们该怎么办？我们应该如何干净地赚钱？这有可能吗？”你知道，嗯...

咖啡齐拉：基本上，等待，从根本上讲，我认为加密行业中的人们没有一个好的答案是因为人们不想听真正的答案，也就是说，诸如“郁金香泡沫”，如何仅通过这样做才被认为是公平的。您可以以多种不同的方式构建它，但是从定义上讲，任何提取从世界大多数地区估值的东西都不是一件好事。所以我认为...

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：停止谈论加密提取，但是每个加密项目，无论是风险资本资金还是模因硬币，都在撤回价值。

咖啡：不？等一下，我认为有区别。不同之处在于，有些东西具有工具价值。尽管这个词经常使用，但有些工具确实能够做事，提供一些服务，然后他们可以谈论价值。然后有些东西根本没有任何内在价值，对吗？但……

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：这仍然是价值提取。无论是否有任何效果，都是一样的。

咖啡：不一定。不确定。就像像可口可乐这样的公司一样。您可以说他们向股东赚了很多钱，但他们也提供服务。您可以对服务有不同的看法，但至少他们提供了人们愿意支付的商品，并向股东提供股息。因此，股东不会以1元的价格购买它，最终将其拿出来，但他们从股息中赚钱。

咖啡齐拉：这不是零和游戏。可口可乐没有玩零和游戏。不是苹果。资本市场中的这些公司都没有玩零和游戏。他们正在创造东西。那就是他们的价值所在。在加密货币领域，最初的想法是，尽管起初有点投机，但您应该关心的是它背后有价值以及其背后的某种金融技术。我认为这是要点。

海顿·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：但是看一下任何加密资产，例如比特币。比特币的价值来自许多认为它很有价值的人，而且它“说话”不受任何人的控制。即使在顶部，它本质上也是一个值提取。所有加密货币，无论是模因硬币还是大规模实用项目，都具有提取价值的性质。最后，我们所做的所有努力都是避免这种情况，这需要取得巨大的进步才能实现。

咖啡齐拉：但是这种进度不能出现在模因硬币上，对吗？

海登·戴维斯（Hayden Davis）：最后，我并不是说我是对的，我只是说这就是我的想法。我认为我一定是对的。但是我的想法是，如果这些模因硬币可以用来合作，交叉促销，燃烧代币并增加实用性，它们最终可能会产生某种社会财务潜力。但是为了实现这一目标，此过程中将发生很多愚蠢的事情。

咖啡齐拉：是的，我很想继续谈论这个。您现在手中有1亿美元，并且正在尝试找到解决方案。您和我已经在短信中谈论过，我给出的建议可能是不完美的，但是我认为建议是，您首先需要拍摄快照，计算盈利和损失，找出谁损失了钱，并按比例分配损失。如果您知道这一点，您可能会专注于较低的损失，例如设定一个人的最大损失50,000美元。假设它超过了这个数量，您可能是经验丰富的交易者。在审查时，您应该特别注意那些熟练不太熟练的投资者，例如阿根廷的用户，他们刚刚看到麦莉的推文并投入了钱，或者在美国的某些人投资了约1,000元。 USD用户。您可以以这种方式弥补某些人的损失。 The disadvantage is that it takes a lot of time and data analytics companies, and frankly, I think it takes a lot of effort, but it is the most reasonable approach at the moment, considering the chaos now.

Hayden Davis: Yes, I've basically been told four options. If someone is willing to help, that's great. The text message I called you was not about telling a "tragic story", but I really needed someone to trust to help me because I really didn't know what to do. I don't want to be blamed for a situation I never wanted to create.

Hayden Davis: Remember, the trouble is that this is the Milei project of the Argentine government, not the team I am responsible for, I will repeat this a hundred times. I had never thought about getting into this position. Anyway, there are several options. The first is to have no refunds, donate all the money to non-profits in Argentina, and then tell everyone that "it's okay". But I think it's a really bad idea. The second option is a refund. But the refund will be based on a series of different indicators, and people will still be angry and will come to me. So I don't, I've been advised by a lot of people that's a bad idea. While I do think people deserve a refund, even if the meme coins are completely speculative, it is ridiculous for people to put their entire savings into it. I still think that based on my ideas and the company's perspective, a refund is OK based on a certain price. The third option is to reinject all the money into the market. I did a calculation to see how much money we had, even when faced with a lot of selling pressure.

Coffeezilla: How much pressure is there?

Hayden Davis: How much can we push it?

Coffeezilla: No, how much money is there in your bank account now?

Hayden Davis: Almost 100 million. I'm almost this number. Then there is a handling fee. So maybe it's about 110 million, well, it's almost this number. There is about 110 million in cash.

Hayden Davis: Because these tokens can be reinjected into the market. I made a chart. If we inject all this money into the market, its market capitalization could rise to about $2.5 billion to $3 billion, a figure close to its all-time high. This at least gives it a chance. And, I have no responsibility for this at all, right? Then everyone can say, hey, the money has returned to the market anyway. Then someone might say, hey, he has bought this token before, and so on. In fact, I will never buy this token again under any circumstances.我想摆脱它。 This was a huge nightmare for me.

Coffeezilla: Let me tell you my opinion, because I think it's a mistake very strongly. Let me quickly tell you why this is a disaster and why this brings more problems.

First of all, this is an unfair solution. At least proportional to the way, trying to keep fair. But you are talking about a startup that has been preempted and used by some of the fastest people. The way you solve the problem is, well, let's do something, which also gives these pre-trade-leading people and robots a chance to use the capital we injected again. Once you announce it, hey, we are considering doing this. If you're a savvy speculator, you know, hey, this guy is going to pull the market value to $2 billion. You can buy some LIBRA coins at a low price. Now, I don't recommend anyone to do this. But even when you tell me this idea, it has created opportunities for internal trading. I can run to the side, raise some money, invest in LIBRA coins, and wait for you to reinject capital. I can say, hey, Hayden, put the money into the market, do it. If you inject $2 billion, I can make 100 times.这是一场灾难。 So once you do this, there will be internal trading issues.

Hayden Davis: Why? Why a disaster? Why a disaster? If I announce this is my intention, then give everyone a chance and everyone can buy it. That's not an internal transaction. That is a completely free market, and everyone knows that money will return to the market, which is actually completely transparent.

Coffeezilla: But even so, when you decide to buy, the smarter the more profitable the person you are, right?但是...

Hayden Davis: That's right. In fact, whether it is startup or capital injection, the results are the same. No matter what, it will be the same in the end. As you said, no matter if I refund or not, everyone will still be angry. Refunds to people, it sounds crazy, or if I reinject funds, everyone will be angry.那为什么...

Coffeezilla: If you just say, hey, everyone, of course they may not get all the money back, why are you angry?

Hayden Davis: Because some of me would say to me, hey, give me $1.5 million or I'll go kill your family. So whether I refund or not, I still have to face these people.

Coffeezilla: You really plan to...

Hayden Davis: Of course not! But now, I have to protect my entire family.

Coffeezilla: No, the first thing you should do is take the money out of your hands. You need to find a trusted company, build a legal structure, and take the money out of your hands. In this way, you, Hayden, have no control. The reason you are scared now is because you do have 100 million control.但这...

Hayden Davis: Right, that's right. But if I were to be very transparent and honest, it was also my leverage to certain groups and all aspects. In fact, I have control, and it is this that makes me the target and protects me as well because it is an international event. This is not a random scam. It is a plan error that happens at the presidential level.

Coffeezilla: Actually, I agree with you.这是一个计划。 So, if I...

Hayden Davis: Leave it to someone else to keep, yes, even a trusted third party, I will lose my leverage. So, until I get the answer from Javier Milei, until I get the answer from their team, until I get a real game plan. Until then, I will not act. I set a 48-hour window for this question-until someone came up with a good plan other than "we need six months" and if that's the right plan, I'll do it. No problem, I don't care at all, 100% agree to hand over control. I don't want to touch on this issue any more. Don't want to do it at all. But now, the situation I face is: My reputation has been ruined, it doesn't matter, I became the government's goal, and there may be more. And my only leverage point is that I have the money. So this is not a simple decision, it cannot be just "giving the money to others". This is not that type of story.

Hayden Davis: Believe in Milei's integrity

Coffeezilla: No, I understand, I understand what you mean. Indeed, this is not a simple story. When we talk about my suggestions, the first thing I said is: This is a problem to solve slowly, and no matter what you do, you should take it slowly. You should not rush to act. That's why I said that injecting money directly into the market doesn't solve all your problems. This is equivalent to giving away the money. I do think you should handle this with caution. But when you say, if we refund, people will come to me, I mean, if you end up finding a trusted third party, it will alleviate your fear of family being kidnapped, forcing you to give money risk. Because you actually don't have money to give them.

This is another question. But I understand what you mean is that to some extent, the 100 million you are holding in your hands is the way you try to find the answer for yourself. Because Javier Milei has obviously tried to draw a line with you. At first he said he was one of you, but later he tried to alienate everyone.没有人反对这一点。 I certainly wouldn't say that Javier Milei knew about this project and supported it. I think he regrets supporting this project, but it doesn't change that he has indeed supported this project, and it is indeed his approval.

But there is a question, "How should you deal with this money?" I just want to say, I think you should really consider the aspects of injustice: the injustice that has happened has not been refuted. So when you want to clean up this mess, it's tempting, but look for that simple solution. The simple way is to put the money back into the market and say, "This is not my problem, go gamble, you gamblers." But I think the fairer way, and it is harder to criticize and responsible, is to find out One way to share the losses, find a way to hand over the money to people, and take it slowly. Because I feel that considering the size of this money, it must be done. But I also admit that I am not on your side, and I don't want to be on your side. When you say I can help, I feel like, it sounds like a nightmare, I don't want to inherit your 100 million dollar problem, but I do want people to get the money back. So I can only give what I think is the fairest advice, you have to make a decision and bear the consequences. This is your burden.

Hayden Davis: But also to clarify, like, I'm this my burden because no one tells me what to do, right? I'm in this extreme situation, and that's something I don't think people can understand, but the decision I made was on behalf of the Argentine government and they've already tied up with the project. I have no responsibility. If they want a refund, I will do it. If you can understand what I mean, this is an impossible scenario.

Coffeezilla: Did they give you any instructions? They didn't give you any guidance at all?

Hayden Davis: No one told me what to do. Zero, no at all.

Coffeezilla: Well, I think Milei must be panicking because of his own affairs.

Hayden Davis: Yes, obviously because...

Coffeezilla: He will be impeached. I'm not sure if he will be impeached, but there will definitely be relevant procedures.

Hayden Davis: He may not be impeached, but he will definitely be close.

Coffeezilla: It hurts him.

Hayden Davis: Of course it hurts a lot. I am a staunch supporter of Milei. I think he is absolutely honest and not corrupt. I think there are many people in Argentina who want to get him off the stage and let them control the corrupt system again.

Hayden Davis: Anyway, I mean, this scenario is simply not feasible. I am like a lamb to be slaughtered now. I won't make a profit from it, it ruined all my reputation, my whole body was exposed on the internet, I don't know what to do. I'm just a promoter. This is the craziest place, I'm not even an issuer, I'm not a member of the team.

Coffeezilla: Well, when you talk about teams, who are the team members?

Hayden Davis: Kip is a member of the team. It's the team that should have managed this project.

Coffeezilla: Oh, I understand. But you are responsible for issuing coins, but the one who manages the funds should be...

Hayden Davis: From my point of view, I am a startup strategist and I am just making decisions on behalf of the team. Yes, it's about making the decisions they want to make.

Hayden Davis: I'm not saying, I'm not a "behind the scenes planner" thinking about how to make money from it. I am here to integrate these projects, promote each other, become bigger and stronger, and become something that is practical. That's the only reason I started doing these things. I'm stuck in it, and I don't have a say in a lot of things, and for the most part, I'm just an executor.

Coffeezilla: We have to admit that you do make millions of dollars from these projects in most cases, right? We cannot deny this.

Hayden Davis: Of course I didn't do it for nothing, I can't say I'm free.

Coffeezilla: OK, OK. I just confirm that you don't want to make yourself a victim. I think you're in a bad situation, but from a financial perspective...

Hayden Davis: Oh, I'm definitely the victim of this situation. I don't plan to make any money from this, but of course, I won't say I don't make any money.

Coffeezilla: How do we know? This is also my doubts about "project sniping" and other issues. You know, as I said, I can track blockchains, I think I'm probably one of the top 1% because most people don't know how to do it. Even if you let me find all the people involved in sniping, it takes me a lot of time and I don't have time at all, it's impossible to complete because there are too many transactions and the data are too complicated. What I want to say is, when you say "I won't benefit from it", how do you prove that you haven't secretly earned millions for yourself? This is completely possible. I'm not accusing you of doing this, I'm not saying you're doing this. But when money flows so quickly, when you can access so much money, and there is a side wallet sniper, oh, this is to protect the project, how do you make sure that the money doesn't flow into your pocket?

Hayden Davis: I think you can use other projects as examples to prove this. I think in terms of this project, because people target my family, and because the president is involved, it's a completely different game, to be honest. I have no interest in profiting from this, which could threaten my life or hurt my family. So it's completely different from the threats from drug dealers in Argentina to hunt you down, or elsewhere, I don't want to have anything to do with this project, nor do I want to make any money from it. So you can take this as any way you think, but I think that's a different thing.

Coffeezilla: Interesting. Look, I think you are an interesting character in some ways. You know what I think of meme coins, I won't blame you too much, even though I disagree. I also disagree with sniping, and I disagree with many things. But I think you are interesting because you represent the other side of "behind the scenes". You see the inside story of some of the biggest projects in the world.

MELANIA Coin. What do ordinary people need to know? Like you said, oh, you know, people should…what is behind these projects? How much money did the team make? What is the real insider information? You know, we like, if you really think people should know this, you should tell them. What do you think of these things? What is the inside story of the project?

TRUMP, MELANIA, LIBRA, big projects are all games for insiders

Hayden Davis: I think the best example should be the TRUMP project because I know that not only raises a lot of money, but also makes the most money. I think this is the best example, honestly.你知道吗？ You know people can get involved when they are $500 million.

Coffeezilla: Are you saying that people are also involved in the sniping of that coin?

Hayden Davis: No, it means, before it was released, someone got a special purchase opportunity at some private dinner, right?

Coffeezilla: Wait, wait, who provides this opportunity? Who gave it?

Hayden Davis: It's just that some people are at a crypto event in Washington.

Coffeezilla: If this is true, I don't know if this is true, but if this is true…

Hayden Davis: I mean, big projects like TRUMP, MELANIA, LIBRA, they are games for insiders. It's like an unregulated casino. If you are a retail trader and want to make money from meme coins, you'd better study hard. This is how the Pump Fund works. First of all, internal personnel know that the price soars after the money is invested. Who is the one who loses the money in the end? This is the rules of the game. Every such project is a game. No one is not. The only exceptions are those projects that died completely, and only a small number of people decided to take over them.

Whether it is TRUMP, MELANIA, LIBRA, or any other big project, it can be considered a game. Just like going to a casino, do you understand? This is the rules of the game. I initially thought these meme coins would become a useful tool, a huge cross-project promotion and interesting partnerships that would allow people to build closer social connections through finance. But it is obviously not the case at the moment. I don't even want to continue doing this, and I don't even know how to do it. My launch strategy is already very mature. Even today, despite so much hatred, 20 people still ask me when to do this project? It's crazy, but this is the game. It's a game without regulation.

Coffeezilla: Do you think this is a mistake? Do you think it is a mistake to let the torrent of such things open? Because you basically said that this is a bad idea.

Hayden Davis: I think most people think so, yes. Like you know, I had a different view three days ago. My view now is that I am very supportive of removing everything from the regulatory market, but I realize now that that is another game as well. I think that's an insider's game. Whether it is a politician like Pelosi or some people in the stock market, it is an insider game, but it is just another form, and people must be more careful. But the capital market is an insider's game. This is the case in the entire market, and I will never be convinced that it is not manipulated. Banks spend hundreds of millions of dollars on illegal things every year because they can make more money. Otherwise I can continue to list.

Coffeezilla: Well, yes, I just want to remind you that if your arguments about the capital markets are "they are manipulated", it is actually providing arguments for more regulation rather than reducing regulation. You don't see a controlled game and say, hey, everyone, we've canceled all the rules that were originally intended to prevent it from being controlled, right?

Hayden Davis: Then you have to trust regulators, and most regulators are bought, which has been proven repeatedly.因为……

Coffeezilla: But again, the conclusion of seeing the problem of the world is not "you realize that the brakes are not working well", and then say, "Hey, the brake manufacturers are bribed, so we should just stop brakeing." Solve problems in a way, promote more supervision, and promote the establishment of more rules. Saying "it's all manipulated" is not the kind of counterattack that people think, do you understand what I mean?

Hayden Davis: Of course. But to me, those are actually irrelevant, because fundamentally, those who have the most funds, the most resources and the most control are always those insiders, and this is true for any market. No matter what field they are in, they always win and never lose. This rule is generally applicable.

Coffeezilla: I can't argue.

Hayden Davis: So, like what I tell people about meme coins, meme coins are not regulated and have a huge fluctuation. There are insiders, snipers, and crazy operations. In fact, the people who care about these things the most are the people at the top. Like I talked to some people, although I don't plan to reveal their names, they are not actually bad people, they are all trying to figure out what to do. Most people are working very hard to figure out how to make this thing sustainable. But no one did it right, no one did it right. And I'm sure that a huge project like LIBRA will help create structures. But you know, I didn't get those calls and when things got hard they all disappeared. So I thought, "Forget it."

Actually, I have a lot to lose. I have a family, and there are a lot of things in my life that can be lost, including my reputation and so on. So I thought, forget it. I just tried hard. Anyway, some people said not to talk to you and said you would mess up me. I thought, buddy, you are a rational person, let's talk about what will happen. That is my only choice, either fight hard, face the consequences, or stop fighting, and will always be called a liar, but I know I am not.

Coffeezilla: I do agree with what you said just now. No matter how many problems there are, it is much better to make your position clear than to let everyone guess and tell your story. I generally think this is correct. You know, it's not that I don't want to tell the truth. I'm not trying to fix anyone's image, nor am I going to do that. I just want to tell the story as it is true. So, when I play this video, I will play the whole thing, except the part you tell me not to play. I can't edit it, I will let it be presented in full, so that everyone can see the story on your side.

I think you are much more transparent than many people in this situation, although they may be scared, too. When you say "people are gone," I think they are afraid, like Javier Milei may be scared by reputation issues, and I think Kip's Julian is also scared by reputation issues, partly because he was treated as a villain in the first place. You know, there are a lot of people here who are very scared. But I think it's a good thing that you can tell your own story and answer these questions. Now, I don't think what's going on here is good, but I think your honest attitude is helpful. So I want to thank you for this.

Hayden Davis: I want to say a few things, I don't know if I need to make a summary, but I want to emphasize a few points. First, I just want to reiterate, not only because I believe this, but because it needs to be said: Javier doesn't understand cryptocurrencies at all. I think he knows a little bit, I think he is smart and understands some blockchain stuff, but I don't think he realizes what he has done. So I want to say this out, I support him with all my strength, I think he is the savior to save one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and this country has a chance to become less corrupt. So, I want to say this.

Second, I share this story out of some hope. I didn't expect to share to this level, but I think it's necessary to make it clear: just because there is a narrative like "all KOLs", I don't know if you think you are a KOL, maybe you don't think so, but you These people make money by sharing content or trading. You make money in these two ways, right? Or maybe it's brand endorsement or something. None of this matters, ultimately because you are constantly spreading content. And your content has had a huge impact on my family in this situation and put me in great danger.

Even though I'm not the protagonist here, I don't want to be the protagonist either, which is why I've always been in the position of facilitators. So I hope people understand this: I don't need to be a victim, I'm not. But I hope people have a little bit of compassion because I may need security for the foreseeable future and I may face a huge dilemma that I don't want. I do this 100% and I don't get any money from this deal. I am doing this as a consultant to Milei, and I hope to further promote other dialogues, promote other blockchain technologies, and promote other projects through this.

I don't care how much money this deal can make, and the rest, of course, I can't say I haven't made any money from it, that's too stupid. But in the end, no matter how you post this, no matter how you retweet, I hope at least a little bit of light shines on the fact: I'm not a liar, and I don't think LIBRA is a dead project 。 Actually I believe Milei will support it. By the way, we will know tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. But I bet he will support it. I think it would be better for him to support it in his current dilemma.

Coffeezilla: Going back to my core question, let's say $100 million can find the right person. The problem is sniping, which is like a secret sniping. You basically said that someone asked you to do this, right?

Hayden Davis: Yes, I mean, well, this is quite complicated. So this should be a longer story.

Coffeezilla: Have you benefited from these snipers? I think this is a question everyone is asking: Are you starting a project? You know the project will start, and then you profit from it with super early investments and make money?

Hayden Davis: No. So the answer is that I have not benefited from it at the moment, and to be honest, I don't know either. These are considered fiscal assets. Again, I want to emphasize that many people don't understand the complexity of these issuances, especially when you initiate these startups, you are competing with hundreds of the most powerful snipers in the world, and they will get from these big ones. Easily earn 10 million, 20 million, and 30 million in the project, and then patted your butt and left. And within a few seconds, they will sell these assets, and they will sell them according to their wishes, rather than following the dynamic market maker (DLMM) or centralized market maker (CLMM) strategy, or "Yes , There is a trading volume of 1 billion US dollars here, which will not affect the price of the currency." They will not consider anything, they just want to sell.

So one of the ways to curb this behavior, although you can say that this is... Well, no problem, it is to try to get the tokens to be launched with the help of snipers, so that there is a higher market value in the market to make you go from the beginning Entering the market, retail investors simply cannot see such an opportunity. Retail investors always see it after 10 minutes, and when the currency price has risen by 10 times or 20 times. So we are also trying to help retail investors as much as possible, but no one sees this. Everyone just saw "Oh, the insiders are operating" or "Oh, the sniper is being attacked". This is actually much more complicated than expected. What people see is profit, not the truth. The goal of each of these projects is to reach more than one or two years. Every team does not have the mentality of "we have to make a lot of money from the beginning". So I want to make this point, whether anyone believes it or not, that is 100% true.

Coffeezilla: I just think if you really want to increase the market value, I think you can design your liquidity pool in some way so that its price can be reflected, or you don't have to do unilateral liquidity. There are many ways you can do this without...

Hayden Davis: They are not all unilateral.

Coffeezilla: Yes, well, I mean you can create a structure, and I think that under this structure, a lot of things can happen without sniping.

Hayden Davis: But the intention is to do it. Unfortunately, no matter how you do it, you will still be sniped. You can start at a market value of 1 billion, you can start at a market value of 500 million, 200 million, or 300 million, and they will all be sniped.

Coffeezilla: It's kind of like that, well, I finally came up with a metaphor: You're basically like a bank, right? Then you say, "Hey, there is money in the bank, come on, everyone can have fun." But you say, "I'm worried that others will come to my bank vault first, so I'll take the money away first, wait. Let the money be put back in the future. "And all of us opened our eyes wide and looked, well, will you put the money back? This becomes a strange trust game that we have to play.

Hayden Davis: It does sound like cryptocurrency, but yes, I don't think it's the worst description. OK, this is how every such startup process is. Everyone was asking: How can we launch these projects fairly without being sniped? Is it a large-scale preheating marketing? In that case, all snipers will know. Or do secret startups, and then some people can still figure it out in the end?我不知道。 This always happens. You and others didn't give me a practical answer, which is why I've been blamed. But no one proposed a solution and told me: "What should we do, it is reasonable? What's the point of doing this?" Because everything is on the blockchain, it can be seen to some extent.

Coffeezilla: All are indeed on the blockchain. Well, I have also said some of my views on meme coins and so on before.

I think you've covered most of the important things. I want to thank you for telling your story. Like I said, I may not agree with you, but I think you have made a lot of important issues that have not been touched before to be exposed. I think this will be an important interview and I am very grateful.

Hayden Davis: OK, take care of yourself, bye.